Legislature(1999 - 2000)

04/21/1999 08:45 AM House FIN

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
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HOUSE FINANCE COMMITTEE                                                                                                         
April 21, 1999                                                                                                                  
8:45 A.M.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
TAPE HFC 99 - 92, Side 1.                                                                                                       
TAPE HFC 99 - 92, Side 2.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CALL TO ORDER                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Therriault called the House Finance Committee                                                                          
meeting to order at 8:45 A.M.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
PRESENT                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Therriault   Representative Foster                                                                                     
Co-Chair Mulder    Representative Grussendorf                                                                                   
Vice Chair Bunde    Representative Kohring                                                                                      
Representative Austerman  Representative Moses                                                                                  
Representative G. Davis  Representative Williams                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative J. Davies was not present for the meeting.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
ALSO PRESENT                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Jeff Logan, Staff, Representative Joe Green; Dennis                                                                             
Poschard, Legislative Liaison, Special Assistant, Office of                                                                     
the Commissioner, Department of Transportation and Public                                                                       
Facilities; Geron Bruce, Legislative Liaison, Office of the                                                                     
Commissioner, Department of Fish and Game; Dick Bishop, Vice                                                                    
President, Alaska Outdoor Council (AOC), Juneau.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
TESTIFIED VIA TELECONFERENCE                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
David McGivern, Anchorage Trail Coalition, Anchorage; Wayne                                                                     
Pichon, Former Coastal Zone Manager for the Federal                                                                             
Government, Anchorage; Lorvel Shields, Flat Bay Shore                                                                           
Community Council, Anchorage; Deanna Essert, Sand Lake                                                                          
Community Council, Anchorage; R.J. Rhodes, Self, Anchorage;                                                                     
Ron Crenshaw, President, Anchorage Trails and Green Belt                                                                        
Coalition, Anchorage; Art Weiner, Biologist, Board Member,                                                                      
Anchorage Citizen's Coalition, Anchorage; Kevin Keeler,                                                                         
Anchorage Trails and Greenbelt Coalition, Anchorage; Patrick                                                                    
Wright, Chairman, Anchorage Fish and Game Advisory                                                                              
Committee, Anchorage; Randy Hoffbeck, Anchorage Parks and                                                                       
Recreation Manager, Municipality of Anchorage; Harry Brod,                                                                      
Self, Anchorage; Vernon Labau, President, Labau Forest                                                                          
Resources Consultants, Anchorage; Doug Perkins, President,                                                                      
Bayshore Flats Community Council, Anchorage.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SUMMARY                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
HB 131 An Act relating to public rights-of-way and                                                                              
easements for surface transportation across the                                                                                 
Anchorage Coastal Wildlife Refuge.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
 HB 131 was reported out of Committee with a "no                                                                                
recommendation" and with zero fiscal notes by the                                                                               
Department of Natural Resources dated 4/1/99 and                                                                                
Department of Fish and Game dated 4/1/99 and an                                                                                 
indeterminent note by the Department of                                                                                         
Transportation and Public Facilities dated 4/1/99.                                                                              
HOUSE BILL NO. 131                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
An Act relating to public rights-of-way and easements                                                                           
for surface transportation across the Anchorage Coastal                                                                         
Wildlife Refuge.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
JEFF LOGAN, STAFF, REPRESENTATIVE JOE GREEN explained that                                                                      
the Anchorage Coastal Wildlife Refuge (ACWR) was created by                                                                     
the Legislature in 1988.  Most of the refuge had previously                                                                     
been classified by the Legislature as the Potter Point State                                                                    
Game refuge.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
In establishing ACWR, the Legislature granted the authority                                                                     
to approve rights of way through the refuge to the                                                                              
Department of Fish and Game and Department of Natural                                                                           
Resources.  HB 131 would establish additional protection for                                                                    
the refuge by withholding that grant of authority and                                                                           
reserving unto the Legislature the right to approve surface                                                                     
transportation rights of ways and easements.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Therriault questioned why the Legislature would                                                                        
want to get into this level of management.  Mr. Logan                                                                           
replied that the sponsor is not proposing that the                                                                              
Legislature manage this land but simply to approve a                                                                            
management decision.  He pointed out that this is a                                                                             
developing urban area in which 75% of the vacant land in the                                                                    
Anchorage Bowl rests.  There is yet to be seen significant                                                                      
development and pressures on that refuge which is unique.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Therriault inquired the concern which brought the                                                                      
legislation forward.  Mr. Logan advised that some people                                                                        
have drawn parallels between HB 131 and a proposed extension                                                                    
of the Anchorage Coastal Trail.  He stated that HB 131 was                                                                      
much broader than a single project.  A route for the bike                                                                       
trail extension has not yet been proposed.  He noted that                                                                       
there is a possible encroachment on the refuge.  Mr. Logan                                                                      
referenced a map included in Committee members packets which                                                                    
shows the Potters Marsh area.  [Copy on File].                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Therriault asked if development would be allowed in                                                                    
the refuge.  Mr. Logan stated it would not, however, with                                                                       
development comes other proposals.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Representative G. Davis questioned why the Legislature would                                                                    
want to become involved in the planning process that the                                                                        
City of Anchorage has already begun.  Mr. Logan replied that                                                                    
the legislation is not proposing to become involved with the                                                                    
planning process, but rather at the end of that process,                                                                        
that the Legislature be consulted.  He pointed out that this                                                                    
is State land and that there is a proposed AMAX bike trail.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Therriault referenced Alaska State Statutes,                                                                           
Subsection (d), which indicates that land owned by the                                                                          
Municipality of Anchorage and lies within the boundary of                                                                       
the refuge may be included in the refuge.  He questioned how                                                                    
much land the City owned within the refuge.  Mr. Logan                                                                          
understood from information contained in the management                                                                         
plan, the State owns all that land.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Representative Bunde voiced concern with the Riffle Creek                                                                       
range which was established in that area.  The potential of                                                                     
introducing pedestrians to that area could present a safety                                                                     
concern.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Representative Foster questioned why the bill had been sent                                                                     
to the Finance Committee accompanied by a zero fiscal note.                                                                     
Mr. Logan pointed out the indeterminent fiscal note                                                                             
submitted by Department of Transportation and Public                                                                            
Facilities.  The sponsor considers it unusual that the                                                                          
agency which manages the refuge has submitted a fiscal note.                                                                    
The Department of Transportation and Public Facilities has                                                                      
the Anchorage Coastal Trail extension project in the                                                                            
planning stage.  It would be directly affected by passage of                                                                    
HB 131.  Mr. Logan explained that he knew from a discussion                                                                     
with the project manager that project would not be in the                                                                       
planning stage for another year and half.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
VERNON LABAU, (TESTIFIED VIA TELECONFERENCE), PRESIDENT,                                                                        
LABAU FOREST RESOURCES CONSULTANTS, ANCHORAGE, noted that he                                                                    
was a member of the Board of the Alaska Bay Owners                                                                              
Association in the Bayshore area.  Mr. LaBau discussed that                                                                     
he has been a biker since moving to Alaska and was a strong                                                                     
proponent of the Anchorage bike trail system.  However, Mr.                                                                     
LaBau strongly opposed having a bike or walking trail being                                                                     
built through the Anchorage Coastal Wildlife Refuge.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
* It would not be good for the natural resource                                                                                 
ecology of the ACWR.                                                                                                            
* Any trail built over those highly unstable                                                                                    
soils would be very difficult to maintain,                                                                                      
and would require a considerable annual                                                                                         
budget expense to upgrade.                                                                                                      
* The area on the shoreline is in the area                                                                                      
designated on Anchorage hazard map as a wind                                                                                    
hazard area due to the high prevailing winds                                                                                    
coming out of Turnigain Arm.                                                                                                    
* Building a bike trail out through the ACWR                                                                                    
would probably mean the Rifle Range would                                                                                       
have to be closed.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
HARRY BROD, (TESTIFIED VIA TELECONFERENCE), ANCHORAGE, spoke                                                                    
in opposition to the proposed legislation.  He suggested                                                                        
that the legislation was proposed by special interests who                                                                      
own homes built close to the bluff in consideration.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
RANDY HOFFBECK, (TESTIFIED VIA TELECONFERENCE), ANCHORAGE                                                                       
PARKS AND RECREATION MANAGER, MUNICIPALITY OF ANCHORAGE,                                                                        
spoke in opposition to the legislation.   He stated that the                                                                    
legislation would eliminate an option of southern extension                                                                     
to the coastal trail.  A management plan was published in                                                                       
1991.  A change to that plan must require public input.                                                                         
Additionally, there is federal funding secured for the                                                                          
trail.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
PATRICK WRIGHT, (TESTIFIED VIA TELECONFERENCE), CHAIRMAN,                                                                       
ANCHORAGE FISH AND GAME ADVISORY COMMITTEE, ANCHORAGE, spoke                                                                    
in support of HB 131.  Property owners have testified before                                                                    
the Fish and Game Advisory Committee that regulations are                                                                       
important and would enhance the property in concern.  The                                                                       
primary concerns of that Committee are habitat and the use                                                                      
for the area.  He reiterated that the bill could provide for                                                                    
the development and utilization of wildlife resources                                                                           
embodied in the Constitution.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
KEVIN KEELER, (TESTIFIED VIA TELECONFERENCE), ANCHORAGE                                                                         
TRAILS AND GREENBELT COALITION, ANCHORAGE, testified in                                                                         
opposition to HB 131.  He suggested that the 95 thousand                                                                        
people that live in the Tutor Road area need a flat,                                                                            
continuous, uninterrupted bike trail.  The Anchorage Coastal                                                                    
Trail has been routed carefully to protect habitat.  Mr.                                                                        
Keeler questioned the true intention of the bill.  He                                                                           
believed that Anchorage residents would be the losers with                                                                      
passage of the legislation.  He urged that the bike trail                                                                       
project go forward in the future.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
ART WEINER, (TESTIFIED VIA TELECONFERENCE), BIOLOGIST, BOARD                                                                    
MEMBER, ANCHORAGE CITIZEN'S COALITION, ANCHORAGE, testified                                                                     
in opposition to the proposed legislation because of                                                                            
inadequate oversight to guarantee that the area stay                                                                            
protected.  He stressed that this is an environmentally                                                                         
sensitive area and needs to be protected with long term                                                                         
planning. He urged that the process remain a professional                                                                       
and public process, not one addressed by the Legislature.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
RON CRENSHAW, (TESTIFIED VIA TELECONFERENCE), PRESIDENT,                                                                        
ANCHORAGE TRAILS AND GREEN BELT COALITION, ANCHORAGE, spoke                                                                     
against HB 131.   Mr. Crenshaw advised that the proposed law                                                                    
would place the will of the Legislature against public input                                                                    
in the Anchorage area.  The coastal trail is one of                                                                             
Anchorage's important public accesses.  It has been through                                                                     
the public involvement process; State resource agencies and                                                                     
the public have created where and how the trail should be                                                                       
built.  No single agency or public interest group should be                                                                     
able to determine the outcome of the public debate.  Mr.                                                                        
Crenshaw concluded that the proposed law would be a "slap in                                                                    
the face" to the Municipality of Anchorage.  He concluded                                                                       
that it is an ill-conceived, inappropriate and unnecessary                                                                      
proposition.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Bunde questioned if the State should have a                                                                      
role to play in trail decisions anywhere in the State.  Mr.                                                                     
Crenshaw replied that the State has a major role to play in                                                                     
trails statewide.  He stated that the Legislature should not                                                                    
hold itself above the planning process and be placed in a                                                                       
position to have veto power over a decision made by the                                                                         
Municipality.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
R.J. RHODES, (TESTIFIED VIA TELECONFERENCE), ANCHORAGE,                                                                         
spoke in support of the legislation.  He noted that he lived                                                                    
on the bluff and could not imagine a bike trail through that                                                                    
area.  He suggested that the price would be prohibitive and                                                                     
would disrupt the wildlife in that area.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
DEANNA ESSERT, (TESTIFIED VIA TELECONFERENCE), SAND LAKE                                                                        
COMMUNITY COUNCIL, ANCHORAGE, spoke in support of the                                                                           
legislation.  She stated that the ACWR is a rare and                                                                            
precious asset deserving preservation in its natural state.                                                                     
She added that for sound reason. the Department of Fish and                                                                     
Game is opposed to development of the trail in the refuge.                                                                      
Additionally, there are incompatible uses already in that                                                                       
area with the presence of the rifle range.  In conclusion,                                                                      
prevailing severe winds in that area would make it difficult                                                                    
for bike riding.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
(Tape Change HFC 99 - 92, Side 2).                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
LORVELL SHIELDS, (TESTIFIED VIA TELECONFERENCE), FLAT BAY                                                                       
SHORE COMMUNITY COUNCIL, ANCHORAGE, spoke in support of the                                                                     
proposed legislation.  He advised that the existing system                                                                      
would be completely altered with a bike trail.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
*  Any structure built in the refuge would have a                                                                               
difficult time with-standing the winds in that                                                                                  
area.                                                                                                                           
* The birds that nest in the refuge, have only two                                                                              
days to raise their young and are extremely                                                                                     
sensitive to disturbance.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Shields emphasized that this would be a terrible area to                                                                    
place a trail and because it is a salt marsh, it would                                                                          
destroy its' environmental value.  There are other places                                                                       
where a transportation trail could be located, however,                                                                         
there is only one refuge.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
DAVID MCGIVERN, (TESTIFIED VIA TELECONFERENCE), ANCHORAGE                                                                       
TRAIL COALITION, ANCHORAGE, testified in opposition to the                                                                      
legislation.  He urged the Committee members to trust the                                                                       
public process in the Municipality of Anchorage to explore                                                                      
all the options for a coastal trail.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
DOUG PERKINS, (TESTIFIED VIA TELECONFERENCE), PRESIDENT,                                                                        
BAYSHORE FLATS CITY COUNCIL, ANCHORAGE, testified in support                                                                    
of the legislation and against any type of marsh trail.  He                                                                     
questioned if HB 131 would pose any relevant fiscal                                                                             
responsibilities that need to be addressed.  He believed                                                                        
that it would not.  He emphasized that this is State land                                                                       
and that it is not a local issue, pointing out that the                                                                         
Department of Fish and Game has indicated that they will not                                                                    
issue a permit for the trail on that land.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
WAYNE PICHON, (TESTIFIED VIA TELECONFERENCE), FORMER COASTAL                                                                    
ZONE MANAGER FOR THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, ANCHORAGE,                                                                             
testified in support of HB 131.  He voiced concern with the                                                                     
intent of the Department of Transportation and Public                                                                           
Facilities.  He believed that the referral of the bill to                                                                       
the House Finance Committee is an attempt to thwart                                                                             
legislative oversight.  Mr. Pichon stated that a surface                                                                        
intrusion to the refuge would harm the plants that live                                                                         
there.  The vegetation in that area is unique to Anchorage                                                                      
and is fragile.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
DICK BISHOP, VICE PRESIDENT, ALASKA OUTDOOR COUNCIL (AOC),                                                                      
JUNEAU, noted that AOC strongly supports HB 131.  AOC has a                                                                     
solid record of supporting critical habitats, recreational                                                                      
rivers, and refuges.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Bishop commented that AOC is concerned about alternative                                                                    
uses that may detract from the values of the rifle range.                                                                       
He noted that the Council has seen many occasions in which                                                                      
wildlife conservation and traditional uses such as hunting,                                                                     
viewing and shooting may suffer if not insulated from                                                                           
rapidly growing competing uses.  In conclusion, he suggested                                                                    
that it was appropriate for the State Legislature to have                                                                       
the oversight of the area.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
DENNIS POSCHARD, LEGISLATIVE LIAISON, OFFICE OF THE                                                                             
COMMISSIONER, DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION AND PUBLIC                                                                           
FACILITIES, stated that the Department is respectful to the                                                                     
concerns of those who previously testified regarding the                                                                        
sensitivity of the Anchorage Coastal Wildlife Refuge.  The                                                                      
Department agrees that there are many important concerns and                                                                    
impacts that will need to be addressed.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
The Department of Transportation and Public Facilities in                                                                       
conjunction with AMATS has a project in the route analysis                                                                      
and preliminary engineering stage that would be directly                                                                        
affected by passage of HB 131.  The project is the Anchorage                                                                    
Trail-southern extension, being developed by AMATS.  The                                                                        
project is significant to the Department and to AMATS                                                                           
because it is the missing link between trails headed north                                                                      
out of Anchorage on the Glen and Parks Highways and south                                                                       
out of Anchorage on the Seward Highway.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Poschard discussed that the potential trail alignments                                                                      
have not been developed yet.  However, the potential for                                                                        
some of the Coastal Trail extension to be located in ACWR is                                                                    
noted in the major planning documents that have been                                                                            
developed during the last 20 years.  These planning                                                                             
documents were developed with significant public, local and                                                                     
state government involvement.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Poschard pointed out that federal funding is being used                                                                     
for the trail extension project.  The use of federal funds                                                                      
requires that the project's environmental process be in                                                                         
conformance with the National Environmental Protection Act.                                                                     
That would ensure local, state and federal agency                                                                               
involvement.  The effect of HB 131 would be to add an                                                                           
additional approval step to the project process if some                                                                         
portion of the trail is proposed to be located in the                                                                           
refuge.  That would add additional time and expense for                                                                         
project development.  The language of the bill shifts the                                                                       
ultimate responsibility for land use management of ACWR from                                                                    
the Department of Fish and Game to the Alaska Legislature.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Poschard advised that the Department opposes the bill:                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
* There is already an adequate process in place for                                                                             
dealing with local concerns regarding the project                                                                               
and the use of the wetland.                                                                                                     
* The Department and AMATS have just begun the                                                                                  
planning process for extending the trail and                                                                                    
should be allowed to proceed without bias for or                                                                                
against any alignment.                                                                                                          
* Should a coastal route be chosen for an extension,                                                                            
and the Legislature not give approval, the                                                                                      
Department and AMATS will have spent over $1                                                                                    
million dollars for nothing and be forced to start                                                                              
again.                                                                                                                          
* The Legislature already has ultimate control over                                                                             
the project through the budget process.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Poschard addressed the fiscal note.  He stated that the                                                                     
sponsor is corrected in that the project is actually in the                                                                     
route analysis stage; however, the fiscal note is still                                                                         
relevant.  There are two costs that will be incurred that                                                                       
the Department cannot quantify ahead of time.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
* The amount of money spent on an environmental                                                                                 
process; and                                                                                                                    
* The amount of money needed on completion of the                                                                               
normal process to come and seek approval from the                                                                               
Legislature.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Representative Bunde asked if there would be $20 million                                                                        
dollars of AMATS money.  Mr. Poschard replied that there                                                                        
will be a more accurate estimate after the route analysis is                                                                    
completed.  The costs could vary greatly.  Representative                                                                       
Bunde asked if maintenance costs would be the State's                                                                           
responsibility.  Mr. Poschard replied that it would be the                                                                      
State's position that the Municipality of Anchorage would                                                                       
maintain that portion of the trail.  The Legislature                                                                            
ultimately has the authority to decide if the project would                                                                     
be funded.  AMATS money is normally allocated as a lump sum.                                                                    
The Department currently has requested $1.2 million dollars,                                                                    
with another $1 million dollars requested for the completion                                                                    
of the EIS permitting and design.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Representative Bunde asked if there would be a negative                                                                         
impact on the rifle range or to the refuge with building the                                                                    
trail.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
GERON BRUCE, LEGISLATIVE LIASON, OFFICE OF THE COMMISSIONER,                                                                    
DEPARTMENT OF FISH AND GAME, responded that he could not                                                                        
answer that questions without having some alternative routes                                                                    
laid out to examine.  The Department has signaled concern                                                                       
and would not be supportive of any route that compromised                                                                       
either of those two concerns.  Those principles would apply                                                                     
to any route that the Department would consider.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Representative Bunde MOVED to report HB 131 out of Committee                                                                    
with individual recommendations and with the accompanying                                                                       
fiscal notes.  There being NO OBJECTION, it was so ordered.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
HB 131 was reported out of Committee with "no                                                                                   
recommendation" and with zero fiscal notes by the Department                                                                    
of Natural Resources dated 4/1/99 and the Department of Fish                                                                    
and Game dated 4/1/99 and an indeterminent note by                                                                              
Department of Transportation and Public Facilities dated                                                                        
4/1/99.                                                                                                                         
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
The meeting adjourned at 10:10 A.M.                                                                                             
H.F.C. 9 4/21/99                                                                                                                

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